What makes someone homosexual?
- Thread starter DonDaddyD
- Start date
- Status
Karma
Heart Attack
Osiris said:
well obviously you CHOOSE your partners...but what is YOUR personal criteria for whom you choose is something is far more complex...and part of that is your sexual orientation.
If you ultimately are NOT attracted to one gender or the other in any way shape or form...then THAT will be the foundation of ANY choice you make as to whom you have sex with or love.
You make your choices based in large part on who you are...and THAT again is where the sexual orientation comes in.
Just thought I would bring this back up because I am feeling froggy lol..
My main point on this if I was gay and someone came up to me and told me I am fat and that I am ugly or disgusting, that if fine, I can argue that.. but when someone attacks your RACE or SEXUALITY, you feel it.. it's something you can't argue because it is what you are.. you feel it. Sexuality is the most basic form of being second only to race, they are primal, things we can't change...
My main point on this if I was gay and someone came up to me and told me I am fat and that I am ugly or disgusting, that if fine, I can argue that.. but when someone attacks your RACE or SEXUALITY, you feel it.. it's something you can't argue because it is what you are.. you feel it. Sexuality is the most basic form of being second only to race, they are primal, things we can't change...
I'm going to have to disagree with you Prophet. I think a person can argue their race or sexuality to someone who is discriminating against them because people who discriminate do so for what they believe to be legitimate reasons.
Homosexuals are discriminated primarily because it's either considered a sinful lifestyle or just unnatural. Both of these can be argued against. Faith can always be argued (to a moot point) and there's evidence that homosexuality is natural because it's found in nature.
People of races are discriminated against because generalizations are made about them. Jews are cheap, Irish drink too much, Asians are smart, etc. Some might argue generalizations become generalizations for a reason, but the fact of the matter is I've met people of all racial persuasions and regardless of who/what you are, everybody is a little different. We are all individuals before we are anything else, and that to me is the greatest argument against discrimination.
Homosexuals are discriminated primarily because it's either considered a sinful lifestyle or just unnatural. Both of these can be argued against. Faith can always be argued (to a moot point) and there's evidence that homosexuality is natural because it's found in nature.
People of races are discriminated against because generalizations are made about them. Jews are cheap, Irish drink too much, Asians are smart, etc. Some might argue generalizations become generalizations for a reason, but the fact of the matter is I've met people of all racial persuasions and regardless of who/what you are, everybody is a little different. We are all individuals before we are anything else, and that to me is the greatest argument against discrimination.
But Mat, if you were black and someone looked at you and was like "You stupid black asshole.." you can't argue that you aren't black.. if you are gay and someone goes "You stupid Fag!" you can't argue that either.. that is what I mean.
Well race generalizations are misunderstood, its not the race that make the people act the ways that we judge them, its the culture. If I were to take a mexican, asia and white baby and let them all grow up around nothing but black people they would all seem to most to act the stereo typical black way. It has nothing to do with the fact that your one race or sexuality, its peoples ignorance to not look at people but look at the easiest thing to find like skin color or sexual preference. People are too lazy to realize that everyone is different and since most have a natural desire to be socialally accepted so they jump on the same stereotype bandwagon and ride it home.
ZorCrow
Banned
IF A MAN WILLINGLY HAS SEX WITH ANOTHER MAN, (NOT TALKING ABOUT RAPE, PRISON RAPE, AND PRISON ABUSE, CAPTAIN ACEVEDA SITUATIONS) but if a man of HIS OWN DESIRES CHOOSES ANY SEXUAL STIMULATION ANY, WITH ANOTHER MAN
HE'S A HOMOSEXUAL, MEN CAN'T BE BISEXUAL IN MY BOOK.
Now as for women, they can be bisexual, or hetrosexual or homosexual.
HE'S A HOMOSEXUAL, MEN CAN'T BE BISEXUAL IN MY BOOK.
Now as for women, they can be bisexual, or hetrosexual or homosexual.
Okay, well Zorcrow, if a Man WILLINGLY has sex with a Man, that makes him Homosexual.. Thank you for FINALLY defining that... :sure:
It simply BOTHERS me that personally YOU as a BLACK MAN in this country can sit there and will denounce homosexuality and what not, when they go through exactly the same things that you do everyday.. Minorities should STICK together, IE, Women, Black People, Asian People, Gay People, Mexican People, and pretty much ALL Liberals in general, we shouldn't be knit picking on what we think is a worthy cause. You may not believe that they go through the same things that you have but they WERE. Homosexuals were treated HORRIBLY in the Holocaust and have been persecuted for living a life some don't condone... People don't condone YOUR lifestyle either, Zorcrow, but to you, you are just living your life and being you and you don't outwardly do anything that would make people HATE you, but people still do. It is the same way with Homosexuals..
I am just trying to get you to understand that at the end of the day, we ARE people, whether we have a different sexual preference or skin color, we think, we feel, we breathe.. and we should CARE about each other... not knitpick on which minority groups we will support.. it should be ALL, we should be all working together to fight PREJUDISM and RACISM not enabling it.
It simply BOTHERS me that personally YOU as a BLACK MAN in this country can sit there and will denounce homosexuality and what not, when they go through exactly the same things that you do everyday.. Minorities should STICK together, IE, Women, Black People, Asian People, Gay People, Mexican People, and pretty much ALL Liberals in general, we shouldn't be knit picking on what we think is a worthy cause. You may not believe that they go through the same things that you have but they WERE. Homosexuals were treated HORRIBLY in the Holocaust and have been persecuted for living a life some don't condone... People don't condone YOUR lifestyle either, Zorcrow, but to you, you are just living your life and being you and you don't outwardly do anything that would make people HATE you, but people still do. It is the same way with Homosexuals..
I am just trying to get you to understand that at the end of the day, we ARE people, whether we have a different sexual preference or skin color, we think, we feel, we breathe.. and we should CARE about each other... not knitpick on which minority groups we will support.. it should be ALL, we should be all working together to fight PREJUDISM and RACISM not enabling it.
ZorCrow said:
By definition anyone can be Bisexual, now I understand its personal opinion there but the thought process is somewhat ignorant. Personally I would never sleep with a guy but if I did I know I would go back to sleeping with women as well, Does that make me a homosexual? I dont think so that means that I would have been Bisexual Bi = 2 Sexual = Sexual preference. Homosexuality means you only sleep with the same sex.
ZorCrow
Banned
Prophet that's weak, don't ever compare with being black to being a homosexual ever.
It's not the same thing, race isn't a choice sexuality is. People have freedoms and wills or is there no free will? Then it's destiny right? Which do you believe?
If you believe in free will, then you believe that folks choose to be gay. Homosexuality is a sexual behavior, folks should not get special rights for that,
Homoseuxality is wrong, it's a sin in the CHRISTIAN, ISLAMIC AND JEWISH religions, and a few other religions as well.
Apart from Religon, as a perosn I don't believe in homosexuality, yes men like to watch porn and want "girl on girl" action in their bed rooms for fun ( I don't endorse fornication either), but when it comes to settling down men marry one woman.
We as America as a secular society have to define marriage as ONE MAN, ONE WOMAN, and we need to let folks know two men ain't marriage and two women aint' marriage. I have a lesbian neighbor, a good neighbor, and she deserves the same rights as I do before the law, except the PREVILEGE NOT THE RIGHT, to marry.
And she can marry, anyone as long as they are a man.
Folks choose to be gay, I know folks who were gay and aren't anymore,
guess what, you can't do that with your race.
Also, Prophet on the RPMB I asked the men and women, the same question "Could you date someone who's bisexual or who used to be gay."
The Women said with one accord NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The men said, for dating and fun (porn ruining their minds again) but for a marriage they said no.
It's not the same thing, race isn't a choice sexuality is. People have freedoms and wills or is there no free will? Then it's destiny right? Which do you believe?
If you believe in free will, then you believe that folks choose to be gay. Homosexuality is a sexual behavior, folks should not get special rights for that,
Homoseuxality is wrong, it's a sin in the CHRISTIAN, ISLAMIC AND JEWISH religions, and a few other religions as well.
Apart from Religon, as a perosn I don't believe in homosexuality, yes men like to watch porn and want "girl on girl" action in their bed rooms for fun ( I don't endorse fornication either), but when it comes to settling down men marry one woman.
We as America as a secular society have to define marriage as ONE MAN, ONE WOMAN, and we need to let folks know two men ain't marriage and two women aint' marriage. I have a lesbian neighbor, a good neighbor, and she deserves the same rights as I do before the law, except the PREVILEGE NOT THE RIGHT, to marry.
And she can marry, anyone as long as they are a man.
Folks choose to be gay, I know folks who were gay and aren't anymore,
guess what, you can't do that with your race.
Also, Prophet on the RPMB I asked the men and women, the same question "Could you date someone who's bisexual or who used to be gay."
The Women said with one accord NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The men said, for dating and fun (porn ruining their minds again) but for a marriage they said no.
DonDaddyD
::Gesturing ala Nas::
ZorCrow said:
I'm not understanding how only women can be bisexual PLEASE explain this to me?
ZorCrow
Banned
Greatness said:
Greatness don't paint the world so rosey, I disagree with you,
there are two types of definitions, practical and paper. On paper with your reasoning a man can be bisexual in reality and practicallity he can't.
To me and many other he's gay . . .
DonDaddyD said:
Men accept women's bisexuality because of the influence of pornography (threesomes, all girls, etc. guy with many girls, et. al)
Women don't play that, and men don't either in REALITY about a guy.
DonDaddyD
::Gesturing ala Nas::
But if your saying that pornography bought about bisexuality what is your explanation for being gay?
Women can naturally like women but to like both MAn and woman to find both attractive is caused unaturally because of porn. what about all those women who find both men and women attractive who haven't been subjected to porn? And what of the men who accept bisexuality without being subjected to porn?
And of course a Man can find both Men and Women physically attractive.
I think your looking at this from too much of a black and white view. Attraction runs deeper than what we have learned to accept through society which is what to my understanding you are saying about our acceptance of Bisexual women.
Women can naturally like women but to like both MAn and woman to find both attractive is caused unaturally because of porn. what about all those women who find both men and women attractive who haven't been subjected to porn? And what of the men who accept bisexuality without being subjected to porn?
And of course a Man can find both Men and Women physically attractive.
I think your looking at this from too much of a black and white view. Attraction runs deeper than what we have learned to accept through society which is what to my understanding you are saying about our acceptance of Bisexual women.
Last edited by a moderator:
Karma
Heart Attack
some of you men KILL ME with your short sighted, subconsciously homophobic/arrogant views on OTHER PEOPLE'S SEXUALITY! 
but far be it from me to stop the flow and exchange of ideas...please carry on.
but far be it from me to stop the flow and exchange of ideas...please carry on.Well to Zorcrow,
I am a black male and I understand what your saying, however all your doing is what white people did to blacks during the time of slavery. Your rejecting what you dont understand as something inferior to your own difference. The problem with race is that its not what most percieve it to be, we are all humans but its people igrorance that miss the fact that the only reason we are different is due to geographical area. The point being made here is that even though sexuality is a choice people are still being treated the same way as blacks where but in a society that doesnt tollerate slavery so its not "as bad" but they are denying homosexuals rights just because of who they want to sleep with. Think about this Zor if you wanted to sleep with a woman and society told you that if you do then you will be rejected and you wouldnt have the same rights as others what would you say? Would you think thats fair? Did you think the way blacks were treated was fair? The compairison to being black isnt the same but its similar enough.
The first statment cancels out the second one. Thats completely hypocritical in everyway possible. The world isnt so rosey as to be able to say that what ever men say goes. If thats the case than gay men can say they are bisexual as well because bisexual and gay men accept that because of the influence of gay porn(threesomes, all guys, etc. girl with many guys, et. al). On paper and Practically if a man sleeps with men and women than he is bisexual, in some peoples world they might not want to see it because they dont understand it and its of course natural for people to not like what they dont understand but its false. Fact of the matter is they are Bisexual by definition and REALITY. There are people who are Gay or Homosexual and they sleep with men only. But Every possible real situation and definition proves that what your saying is not fact but an opinion just because you and many men think that way doesnt mean its true. 70% of the US at one time thought blacks were stupid and were ment to be slaves by your logic there hey its cool since they feel that way to go with it.
I am a black male and I understand what your saying, however all your doing is what white people did to blacks during the time of slavery. Your rejecting what you dont understand as something inferior to your own difference. The problem with race is that its not what most percieve it to be, we are all humans but its people igrorance that miss the fact that the only reason we are different is due to geographical area. The point being made here is that even though sexuality is a choice people are still being treated the same way as blacks where but in a society that doesnt tollerate slavery so its not "as bad" but they are denying homosexuals rights just because of who they want to sleep with. Think about this Zor if you wanted to sleep with a woman and society told you that if you do then you will be rejected and you wouldnt have the same rights as others what would you say? Would you think thats fair? Did you think the way blacks were treated was fair? The compairison to being black isnt the same but its similar enough.
ZorCrow said:
The first statment cancels out the second one. Thats completely hypocritical in everyway possible. The world isnt so rosey as to be able to say that what ever men say goes. If thats the case than gay men can say they are bisexual as well because bisexual and gay men accept that because of the influence of gay porn(threesomes, all guys, etc. girl with many guys, et. al). On paper and Practically if a man sleeps with men and women than he is bisexual, in some peoples world they might not want to see it because they dont understand it and its of course natural for people to not like what they dont understand but its false. Fact of the matter is they are Bisexual by definition and REALITY. There are people who are Gay or Homosexual and they sleep with men only. But Every possible real situation and definition proves that what your saying is not fact but an opinion just because you and many men think that way doesnt mean its true. 70% of the US at one time thought blacks were stupid and were ment to be slaves by your logic there hey its cool since they feel that way to go with it.
DonDaddyD
::Gesturing ala Nas::
I said being gay was a choice in this thread a LONG time ago and I got my ass kicked.
But I still believe sexuality is a choice and being gay is the other side of the coin to being straight. Yes being the latter over the former will mean you are more than likely going to meet extreme predujice in your life but to my understanding being gay is just a prefrence of sexuality.
I started this thread because I said this to someone on the board and they told me being homosexual was more than just a sexual preference it was like being a race of people. Again I ask how?
I know that there is a gay culture defined and shaped through society but if you look at it retrospectively there is a straight culture, neither culture justifies itself as being more than just a sexual preference. Despite gay's getting a hard time in life for being who they are I see being gay and being straight on equal stature and to me that they are both a sexual prefernce.
I however don't think it is right to dismiss or denouce homosexual's from having the same equal rights as striaght people, that is not fair. If I thought that it would also make me no more than the ignorant racist that claim 'blacks can't have the same rights as white people'.
But within that we are comparing like for like and though the predujice is similar to the predujice experienced by other minorites I am not totally sure you can compare ethnicity and sexuality. Earlier I wanted to move the conversation away from comparing being gay to being of an ethnicity or any other minority not because I believe blacks have suffered worse than gays (all experiences are relative to the individual) but because whenever I discuss matters of this nature people always try to draw parrlelles between the suffering of others and I find that it cheapens both. For me pain and suffering isn't a method that can be cheaply used to claim your right to something. I just wanted to focus on why being homosexual was considered (if it is considered at all) more than just a sexual preference when hetrosexuality (it's direct equal) isn't.
But I still believe sexuality is a choice and being gay is the other side of the coin to being straight. Yes being the latter over the former will mean you are more than likely going to meet extreme predujice in your life but to my understanding being gay is just a prefrence of sexuality.
I started this thread because I said this to someone on the board and they told me being homosexual was more than just a sexual preference it was like being a race of people. Again I ask how?
I know that there is a gay culture defined and shaped through society but if you look at it retrospectively there is a straight culture, neither culture justifies itself as being more than just a sexual preference. Despite gay's getting a hard time in life for being who they are I see being gay and being straight on equal stature and to me that they are both a sexual prefernce.
I however don't think it is right to dismiss or denouce homosexual's from having the same equal rights as striaght people, that is not fair. If I thought that it would also make me no more than the ignorant racist that claim 'blacks can't have the same rights as white people'.
But within that we are comparing like for like and though the predujice is similar to the predujice experienced by other minorites I am not totally sure you can compare ethnicity and sexuality. Earlier I wanted to move the conversation away from comparing being gay to being of an ethnicity or any other minority not because I believe blacks have suffered worse than gays (all experiences are relative to the individual) but because whenever I discuss matters of this nature people always try to draw parrlelles between the suffering of others and I find that it cheapens both. For me pain and suffering isn't a method that can be cheaply used to claim your right to something. I just wanted to focus on why being homosexual was considered (if it is considered at all) more than just a sexual preference when hetrosexuality (it's direct equal) isn't.
Don Daddy D,
I think what people mean isnt that its the same way us blacks were treated but its the same idea. If anyone wants to talk about suffering than look what blacks are did to blacks in rawanda. Its the people who do this to other people it has nothing to do with race people just make it that way. Discrimination is discrimination no matter what the reason, its not why your discriminated against in most cases but how.
I think what people mean isnt that its the same way us blacks were treated but its the same idea. If anyone wants to talk about suffering than look what blacks are did to blacks in rawanda. Its the people who do this to other people it has nothing to do with race people just make it that way. Discrimination is discrimination no matter what the reason, its not why your discriminated against in most cases but how.
Karma
Heart Attack
One More Time
its NOT a choice. thank you
its NOT a choice. thank you
DonDaddyD
::Gesturing ala Nas::
Ok so homo/hetrosexual is not a choice but someone told me that homosexuality was more than just someones sexuality. How is this so if both Homo/Hetrosexuality is the same thing and my liking girls is just a way of explaining my sexuality?
Your sexuality is not a choice. I'm a straight man not because I choose to be, but because when I see an unclad attractive woman it turns me on. I can't control whether or not I'm turned on by her - it's instinctual.
Condemning somone for a choosing to be a homosexual or brushing it off as their own personal lifestyle choice so they have to deal with the ramifications is ridiculous. What if society was the other way around and you were supposed-to stick to your own gender? What if the major religions said a man and a woman together is sinful and you should choose partners from your own gender? Well, I don't know about my fellow tripods but if that was the case I'd still stick to women. I'd burn in hell before I ever decided to live my life as a homosexual. Not because I want to rock the societal boat, but because I'm straight whether I want to be or not.
I don't agree with everything that's been said in this thread by either side of the debate but just had to chime in here.
Condemning somone for a choosing to be a homosexual or brushing it off as their own personal lifestyle choice so they have to deal with the ramifications is ridiculous. What if society was the other way around and you were supposed-to stick to your own gender? What if the major religions said a man and a woman together is sinful and you should choose partners from your own gender? Well, I don't know about my fellow tripods but if that was the case I'd still stick to women. I'd burn in hell before I ever decided to live my life as a homosexual. Not because I want to rock the societal boat, but because I'm straight whether I want to be or not.
I don't agree with everything that's been said in this thread by either side of the debate but just had to chime in here.
- Status