Abortion...yay or nay.

It's called Wicca, not Wiccanism x.x Anyways, almost every single religion values human life and freedom...I've never understood why the hell people bring up religious factors when talking about this damn topic. Yeah, it's the basis for your decision and how you may look on it, but honestly who actually follows the rules of their religion every single time? The woman will still have to choose whether she can have it or not, whether it's against or for their religion because if we spent all our time not worrying about us there wouldn't be a lot of us left lol.

And honestly, men can go tell men whatever the hell they want, but a man trying to tell a woman about something he will NEVER be able to feel or know what it's like to carry a child...that is completely different. Unless men wanna start getting pregnant they have no right to tell woman what they should do or not do. They dont know what it's like to be pregnant, the requirements, the consequences...they dont deal with that stuff, so why should they deal with the validity of having an abortion choice?
 
Well, I think there is a give and take. Say if two people were in a long relationship and the pregnancy happen, I think it would be only fair that the woman at least discuss it with the man before having one, yeah it's not part of the man, but he helped create it. If women get mad at men who are deadbeat Dads and are all like "I didn't climb on top of me and get myself pregnant", and you think a man should take care of his responsibilities, well this new baby is also a part of him, it isn't just the woman's. I am not saying you HAVE to listen to the man, you need to do what's right for you, but if you cared about the guy, you should at least have enough decency to consider his opinion on the matter.
 
No I agree with you there - the father should be involved in the discussion.

Tempest said:
No that's being called greatly misinformed hun ;) I've been
to A LOT of abortion clinics around my hometown, along with using one for my english speech final. I've had several friends get pregnant, which reminds me, I need to figure out when I'm taking my friend's mom to get hers. When I volunteered at the hospital, I decided to take a side tour option that was available through a different organization which envolved going to abortion clinics and just watching and whatnot. Half of their equipment was not upkept. It's a miracle these places are even open for business without any squabble. I guess people just don't care that much about what they're subjecting themselves to, I dunno.
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You aren't the only person who has had friends get pregnant. But in any case - and not denying what you saw - what do you think it will be like if abortion is made illegal?

It is slightly derogatory, a good number of people who posted were 21 and under. Years doesn't mean knowledge, you can still be young and have your own opinions from other experiences, while being older provides other experiences to add to your own opinion. And in real life, it's not that complicated when you know what you want to do with your life. I have my own path set for me, and no man is gonna make me give up my dreams again. But that's just my view on life and opinion. If they really love me, they should be accepting of me and my wishes, whether it require them to wait or not whatever age I am when I find him. It's not unreasonable, I've seen a lot of people do it...might just be the nature of my city then, I can't speak for the rest of the country or world. ...It's very hard to get pregnant while using contraceptives, which is why I say if yer ready to take that risk which is all your own choice, you should be ready for the consequences since you are personally choosing to take them on. It's not a hard concept to understand lol. People who know they dont want kids shouldn't just be going around screwing guys left and right.
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No years doesn't mean knowledge, and that wasn't what I was talking about. Which is why I said that I didn't mean it as derogatory. What I'm saying is, that as you get older it is not that easy. Not everyone marries at 18 or 21. Of course if you want to wait if the person really loves you they will wait too. But again, that's not what I'm talking about. That is your choice, and should be. Sex can be about more than just procreation. If I love someone and want to express that and am ready to I am going to. You don't have to be 'screwing guys left and right' to get pregnant. It only takes one time.

I do think it's unreasonable - and I can speak from experience, I've been there. I'm just saying it's easy for you to say 'wait' before you've really waited. That was my point, not that I know more than you because I'm older.

There's an enormous amount of kids who can't get adopted because they're too old, not in the popular age requirement, etc. But if you think about it, half the families who apply get rejected for some reason or another. Maybe it's time people rethought who makes a good family and who doesn't. It's sad and I wish I could take in all the kids, but the same thing happens to animals. Does that mean we should just go out and kill all the wild and abandoned animals because there's just too many of them in shelters? It'd be like a total wipe out massacre. The world will always continue to populate until we decide to tone it down a bit, through whatever idea that is.
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Do you know what they do to animals who don't get adopted lol?
 
Shockwave said:
Personally, if I was raped, I don't think I should have to take 9 months out of my life to carry a child that I never wanted in the first place. Then have the possibility of complications during birth where MY life could be put on the line because a man decided he wanted to take advantage of me. I understand many of you believe that the moment you find out you're pregnant, there's a child in your stomach, and abortion means killing that child, but if I was raped and put in that situation, and i'm sure if YOU were raped and put in that situation, you'd probably think about abortion a little more.

Honestly, I don't find abortion to be killing a child. It's a fetus, yes it will grow into a child, but it has yet to develope anything that makes us humans, well human. But that's just my opinion on the matter. Although, I do find it disgusting when the baby is developed enough and a woman wants to abort it. That is a whole different story. But that's just my opinion on the matter.
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If I was Raped I wouldn't have an abortion I wouldn't even think about it a child does not carry on the sins of the father. Even if the child is not fully developed I still believe it is murder because you didn't give the child a chance to have a life. I don't know how people can live with themselves after they have an abortion.
 
Not, no the sins of the father.... just the eyes.... or the ears... or the nose or facial structure. or the temperament....

Nothing is so cut and dry. Like Vilandra said before, because I'm pro choice doenst make me pro abortion OR pro death.... I think that we should have the CHOICE... and that all available options should be open. this is a powerful technology... and you just can't close pandora's box and end all the suffering. abortion was introduced and now its HERE. banning it won't stop it.... look at controlled substance and the 'war on drugs'. Lets all be realistic.... I know several people who consume illegal substances or have in the past.... just because its illegal to grow, consume, or sell marijuana DOESNT mean its not done.
 
Vilandra said:
You aren't the only person who has had friends get pregnant. But in any case - and not denying what you saw - what do you think it will be like if abortion is made illegal?
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It'll just be the same thing as it is now, dirty and unsafe. Lol, still my point lol.

No years doesn't mean knowledge, and that wasn't what I was talking about. Which is why I said that I didn't mean it as derogatory. What I'm saying is, that as you get older it is not that easy. Not everyone marries at 18 or 21. Of course if you want to wait if the person really loves you they will wait too. But again, that's not what I'm talking about. That is your choice, and should be. Sex can be about more than just procreation. If I love someone and want to express that and am ready to I am going to. You don't have to be 'screwing guys left and right' to get pregnant. It only takes one time.

I do think it's unreasonable - and I can speak from experience, I've been there. I'm just saying it's easy for you to say 'wait' before you've really waited. That was my point, not that I know more than you because I'm older.
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God i'd never marry at 18 or 21. There's so much I still have to do in life lmao. All those parties to go to ^_^ Weeeeee! lol. And I don't understand your point, you're only confirming what I said in my first post lol. If a woman is ready to express their love like you said, I believe they should be ready to accept the consquences from it. It's only fair, seeing as life isn't fair and square and you have to deal with the crap-hand you get dealt.

Ah gotcha. I'm still waiting. Yeah it's tempting, everyone gets tempted at some point in time, but when I weigh waiting against painful surgical operations, knives or going nine months while dropping outta school, losing my degree and having a kid...it seems a whole lot better a choice if I'm unprotected lol.

Do you know what they do to animals who don't get adopted lol?
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Yeah, I'm a vet assistant ;) I'm gonna fund the biggest house of pets in the world LOL. But yeah, its why I don't support the whole mass genocide of kids just because their unwanted, like pets. Atleast let them try to make something for themselves. A lot of orphanage kids actually do grow up into high businessmen or other important people...they aren't just stuck there because no one wants them. I'd rather give them a shot than none at all.
 
i notice some of these comments and the age of the posters. now of course everyone is welcomed to participate in any thread here.... but this is not a subject that a teenager or even most "young adults" (especially males) could possibly grasp the true gravity of in order to make a some of the comments i've seen.

its EASY to "preach" abstinence...especially if you are younger and have your parents there really pushing that to the forefront of your mind....and if your in a school where that is taught in your sex ed or health course.

LIFE is not always the way TV, President Bush, "Christianity" or "Pro Lifers" would h ave you think...and its not as simple nor as straight forward as a question of "choose life" or "dont have sex if you dont want children".....

there are things that happen...choices that are FORCED upon women and even young girls and these choices are born of circumstances that some of you couldnt possibly fathom living through.

as a GROWN WOMAN...i cannot tell you how IMPORTANT it is to ME to have MY RIGHTS to decide how i handle my own body. I dont need some doctorine, some politician, some pro-life radical or someone who hasnt even "lived" a full life yet or experienced the things that adults experience telling me how to handle MY CHOICE.

Some of you do not realize just how RECENT it has been that women have been able to enjoy the rights that Feminism and those even before the dawn of feminism have won for us.

so while some of you are so quick to reference religion, God, the bible, george bush or whoever...when you proclaim "pro life no matter what"...remember...that just over 40 years ago...men used those same platforms to justify: beating their wives as long as it was "behind closed doors" because "women were to be kept in line....the bible says so"; making women forego any chance of a full life by staying home and being nothing more than "baby machines"...FORCING the women to depend on othe men; and trying to force us to think that it was a SIN or a BAD thing for us to be comfortable with our sexuality or to understand it......much less take control of our own bodies in all ways.

REMEMBER THAT...when you are so quick to stand behind a president who wants to TAKE AWAY a WOMAN'S RIGHT to CHOOSE!

Being pro choice doesnt mean that every woman who feels that way is going to rush out and have an abortion...it means that no matter what...she has her RIGHT to decide her options....and ULTIMATELY (father involved or not) its HER body...HER life....and there fore its HER CHOICE.

When some of you become fully adult women...you will probably better understand that.

;)
 
Vilandra said:
I hear what you're saying - it's not that I don't :)
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Kewl lol. I was hoping I wasn't coming off bitchy or anything x.x English isn't my first language so what sounds fine in my head comes out reaaaally different to others lmao.
 
If a person is trying to commit suicide it is the legal authority's job to stop them.

If a person is going to try to kill someone it's the legal authority to stop them.

Abortion is murder period. It is the taking of a life that is not your own.
Using the term Freedom and Choice are buzzwords that hide the true facts.

When an abortion happens a life is killed . . . someone is murdered legally.

Using the term Choice and Child Freedom and Rights are covers that don't deal with service and justice. It's not your body, I am not trying to tell women what to do with their bodies unless I have the legal authority to do so (i.e. being under arrest, being interviewed, et. al).

This is the child's body, so men don't carry babies so what? Wome carry lives inside them and when they chose to have the kids killed through surgery it's murder. Children can not survive outside the womb until a certain date.
Children can not surive on their own once they come out he womb until they are physically, mentally, and psychologically read. So why not kill them then?
Having post delivery abortions . .

I dont' like the baby's dad, or I don' t know who the father is, or whatver.
The life is terminated. Since the mother usually deals with the child and women breastfeed to help the child nurture and grow, so the women should have the right to kill the baby then right? Or have the doctor put it to sleep.

What's the difference? Its' a life, abortion is murder, killing, slaughter, 40,000,000 abortions since it's been made legal. 40 MILLION innocent lives.
40 MILLION. That's not choice, that's not your body, that's death.
 
I am sorry, but if you are opposed to abortion then you must be opposed to eating meat or anything else that involves killing. There are tons of cows that are born destined to die and nobody ever says anything about that? If you are so opposed to taking the life of an unborn baby, how can you then NOT be opposed to the killing of a baby calf just so we can have veal? If you TRULY believe that Life is life, than how can you sit and eat a hamburger? Those animals didn't have a choice on whether or not they wanted to get shot and then served on a plate? Are we better than animals because we developed guns? No, so let's no be hippocrates, you can't pick and choose which kind of deaths you support and don't.
 
I just wanted to say that the title to the thread is a bit confusing. I don't know anybody who is FOR abortion. It's not like there are people out there saying "YAY abortion's great! Everybody should get one!" and it seems like that's what the thread is asking.

Now on for the pro-life/pro-choice topic. I am pro-choice. Abortion is a very difficult decision that women have to make. Nobody can or should make it for them. I don't think you should be able to force your own morals on a person and refuse them the right to do what they will with their body. That doesn't mean I believe in abortion with no restrictions. Except for medical reasons I don't believe in abortions after the first tri-mester. I think a woman has three months to decide after that you waited to long sweetie, sorry.

Okay, that's enough from me. I'm done. ;)
 
First of all, I think we had crummy Presidential nominees for Republican and Democrat, being that Bush supports the death penalty but claims abortion is wrong and uses Christianity to base that on, meanwhile Kerry opposes the death penalty and supports abortion. That's so hypocritical on both of their parts. ((GREEN PARTY ALL THE WAY!! lol))

Anyways, I do think it's wrong. But I still can't honestly say if I was in a certain position that I wouldn't have one. I would definitely have guilt all my life...

Here's the thing. My mom does accounting for a place that's right beside an abortion clinic, run by the abortion clinic's owner's daughter...lol You still with me? So sometimes she has to do the work for the clinic also. Well yeah, she finds out some things that have turned me really against it. Especially since the clinic does illegal abortions AFTER the maximum date has been reached...And someone HAS died because of it, we think. Another person came pretty darn close, which is scary. Anyways, some stories of things like the baby (Yes, I'm calling the "fetus" a BABY, because they obviously knew what was going on) would instinctively pull away while they were "sucking it out" or whatever the heck it is they do. That to me proves something right there. A lot of people use excuses such as, "It's not even a human yet"... Then how do they explain things like that? It obviously KNOWS something's up. They also sometimes put them in socks, then stick em in the freezer til the Abortion Man comes and picks up the "Products of Conception", which is what they call them in doctor language. They have also been known to pull out WHOLE body parts, which is more sickening than anything...

No, I'm not trying to say all of you suck and should die and go to hell...lol but those are some of the main reasons I was just turned WAY against it...It's just so hard to even think about. Especially the fact that it's run by the doctor who delivered ME as a baby and also runs a BIRTH CENTER. How much more hypocritical can you get? Gohhh.

I mean, there are some girls who just go out at age 12 and 13, have tons of sex without protection, and have tons of abortions. Those people just need to tie their tubes up or something, because I'm SO SICK of seeing people do that...when there are women who want to have a baby more than anything and CAN'T, while these girls are just wasting their lives away. But in OTHER cases, especially such as rape, I don't know what I would do in a situation like that. You don't want to come hope from a date and a few weeks later have to tell your parents, "Oh hey, Mom. Dad. I forgot to tell you. I was raped 2 weeks ago and got pregnant!" And going to school huge and everyone knowing- Most probably wouldn't believe a rape story either. I think cases like that should be looked at from a totally different perspective, if you know what I mean. Lots of Christians would argue with me over that, but most of them don't have the honesty to consider what THEY would do in a situation like that.
 
I think you bring up a good point in that how does anyone really know how they would act in this situation unless they've actually been there?

I would like to point out that not every person who considers abortion is a skank ho lol
 
there's alot of uninformed, narrow minded thinking in here....i would expect that from men when it comes to women's issues, and i would also expect that from younger women who havent really lived LIFE yet...but i would like to remind each of you that you dont have the right to lump everyone into a generalized category.

obviously no one here is going to change their view on abortion itself but an open mind and some sensitivity would go along way for some of the posters in this thread.

first of all...dont comment on the "character" of someone (i.e. the implication that they are a "skank" or "ho" OR that they "deserve what they get") if you yourself arent prepared to receive the same kind of harsh judgement when YOU face a difficult discision.

and for all you CHILDREN (yes i said it dammit) who feel as though you are an authority on the subject...i would ask that you take a couple of years to actually GROW UP AND LIVE LIFE outside of the realm that your parents provide you and see then how you feel about this or ANY OTHER topic that you as a woman may have to face. its easy to spout off ideaological rhetoric when you have a safety net behind you. when you go out into the world and face things on your own....it changes.

a woman's RIGHT TO CHOOSE is the most important thing she can have. its something that MANY WOMEN around the world can only DREAM about....some women have to face "female circumcision", are forced to wear restrictive clothing from head to toe and remain indoors at all times..and some live in constant fear of being stoned for having sex with someone who they arent married to and yet th MEN of their cultures are free to sleep with whomever they choose.

INEQUALITY has been something WOMEN have had to face for years....Roe Vs. Wade helped us get a step closer to what shouldve been ours from the beginning ....our basic right to control our own body.

THINK ABOUT THAT when you spout off about something that you cant possibly fathom.
 
I think perhaps the best movie on this topic is If These Walls Could Talk.. watch the first story with Demi Moore ;) and then get back to me.. That movie is VERY powerful.
 
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